rabbigreen
Rabbi Michael Green
My Thoughts on Texting Teens & Shabbat http://bit.ly/lPZlx7 @unclechaim @rachelmabrahams @makeforyourself @rabbiphilip @RabbiDMK @MarkSoFla
makeforyourself
YC
@rabbigreen a great great start - -love it @rachelmabrahams @unclechaim @MarkSoFla @RabbiDMK @rabbiphilip
@rabbigreen a great great start - -love it @rachelmabrahams @unclechaim @MarkSoFla @RabbiDMK @rabbiphilip
MarkSoFla
Mark
@makeforyourself @rabbigreen @rachelmabrahams @unclechaim @RabbiDMK @rabbiphilip @dovemerson @RabbiGoldberg Wh… (cont) http://deck.ly/~gizZo
@makeforyourself @rabbigreen @rachelmabrahams @unclechaim @RabbiDMK @rabbiphilip @dovemerson @RabbiGoldberg Wh… (cont) http://deck.ly/~gizZo
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla That they must not really understand what Shabbos is supposed to be about.
@MarkSoFla That they must not really understand what Shabbos is supposed to be about.
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK Okay.How does that help the texting situation?And what were the parents/yeshivot doing for all those years?
@RabbiDMK Okay.How does that help the texting situation?And what were the parents/yeshivot doing for all those years?
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla All very good questions. (You won't like my answers. And there is no "quick fix.")
@MarkSoFla All very good questions. (You won't like my answers. And there is no "quick fix.")
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK I still want to hear them though. My kids are on the cusp of becoming teenagers and I need as many answers as I can find!
@RabbiDMK I still want to hear them though. My kids are on the cusp of becoming teenagers and I need as many answers as I can find!
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla Personally, I'm not a big fan of "texting" the rest of the week. (It's bad enough that I tweet! ;)
@MarkSoFla Personally, I'm not a big fan of "texting" the rest of the week. (It's bad enough that I tweet! ;)
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK I very rarely text,my wife never texts,and my kids don't have phones. But I do tweet.
@RabbiDMK I very rarely text,my wife never texts,and my kids don't have phones. But I do tweet.
MarkSoFla
Mark
@AchshavNews Never seen it. And I'm not all that interesting,just a regular family guy. Link?
@AchshavNews Never seen it. And I'm not all that interesting,just a regular family guy. Link?
AchshavNews
Achshav
@MarkSoFla Just the way you said it sounded like him. youtube.com/watch?v=8Bc0Wj…
@MarkSoFla Just the way you said it sounded like him. youtube.com/watch?v=8Bc0Wj…
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla Do you miss it on Shabbos? Why do you only rarely text, and why doesn't your wife text? At what point will the kids get phones?
@MarkSoFla Do you miss it on Shabbos? Why do you only rarely text, and why doesn't your wife text? At what point will the kids get phones?
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK Yes,I miss it a LOT on Shabbat. I consider myself very lucky that all this stuff didn't exist when I was a teen.
@RabbiDMK Yes,I miss it a LOT on Shabbat. I consider myself very lucky that all this stuff didn't exist when I was a teen.
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla I'm trying to "get at" why ppl are lax w/some aspects of sh'miras Shabbos, but not others.
@MarkSoFla I'm trying to "get at" why ppl are lax w/some aspects of sh'miras Shabbos, but not others.
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK Yes,but you've lost track.Back to original tweet you replied to, kids say more beauty with texting. Now what? http://j.mp/mzLXHF
@RabbiDMK Yes,but you've lost track.Back to original tweet you replied to, kids say more beauty with texting. Now what? http://j.mp/mzLXHF
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla I told you, there's no quick fix. Have patience- let the conversation play through.
@MarkSoFla I told you, there's no quick fix. Have patience- let the conversation play through.
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla If your kids don't eat non-kosher b/c G-d said not to, why wouldn't they refrain from texting b/c G-d said not to?
@MarkSoFla If your kids don't eat non-kosher b/c G-d said not to, why wouldn't they refrain from texting b/c G-d said not to?
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK Eating kosher is ingrained in them all their lives. Guess what? Texting is becoming ingrained as well. Some start at age 7-8!
@RabbiDMK Eating kosher is ingrained in them all their lives. Guess what? Texting is becoming ingrained as well. Some start at age 7-8!
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla Well, then we need to ingrain in them that texting is not allowed on Shabbos, the same way other things R not allowed on Shabbos.
@MarkSoFla Well, then we need to ingrain in them that texting is not allowed on Shabbos, the same way other things R not allowed on Shabbos.
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK So your approach is to focus on the "not allowed"(and not the "beauty"). I'm not sure how well that will work with teens.
@RabbiDMK So your approach is to focus on the "not allowed"(and not the "beauty"). I'm not sure how well that will work with teens.
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla Not at all. We're not even half-way through this conversation. (I'm still waiting 4 the appropriate time 2 point out that (con't)
@MarkSoFla Not at all. We're not even half-way through this conversation. (I'm still waiting 4 the appropriate time 2 point out that (con't)
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla (con't) kids will likely pick up that their parents differentiate between texting and going to movies.
@MarkSoFla (con't) kids will likely pick up that their parents differentiate between texting and going to movies.
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla I think the beauty is of primary importance, but it can't (easily) be taught, it has to be lived. And demonstrated how (con't)
@MarkSoFla I think the beauty is of primary importance, but it can't (easily) be taught, it has to be lived. And demonstrated how (con't)
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK I agree. Beauty cannot be taught,it can only be lived. And in some cases we have structural problems living it. @rabbigreen @efink
@RabbiDMK I agree. Beauty cannot be taught,it can only be lived. And in some cases we have structural problems living it. @rabbigreen @efink
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla This, IMO, is the root of it all. The Q is how to "fix" that. (con't) @rabbigreen @efink
@MarkSoFla This, IMO, is the root of it all. The Q is how to "fix" that. (con't) @rabbigreen @efink
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@efink I love your point about Shabbos table discussions. Not sure I agree that this isn't a unique/new problem. @marksofla @rabbigreen
@efink I love your point about Shabbos table discussions. Not sure I agree that this isn't a unique/new problem. @marksofla @rabbigreen
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK @efink @rabbigreen I think unique and new in that kids do it publicly with almost no shame. Plus the communication aspect of it.
@RabbiDMK @efink @rabbigreen I think unique and new in that kids do it publicly with almost no shame. Plus the communication aspect of it.
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla The "instant" communication aspect, w/o havig to be face-to-face w/the other, & the attention span issue. @efink @rabbigreen
@MarkSoFla The "instant" communication aspect, w/o havig to be face-to-face w/the other, & the attention span issue. @efink @rabbigreen
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla (con't) Somehow, there isn't enough peer pressure not to communicate w/each other via text on Shabbos. @rabbigreen @efink
@MarkSoFla (con't) Somehow, there isn't enough peer pressure not to communicate w/each other via text on Shabbos. @rabbigreen @efink
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK @rabbigreen @efink From the article(grain of salt!),it seems as if the peer pressure is the opposite. #mykidsaintgettingphones
@RabbiDMK @rabbigreen @efink From the article(grain of salt!),it seems as if the peer pressure is the opposite. #mykidsaintgettingphones
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla (con't) how not doing things that aren't allowed enhances, or even makes-or-breaks, the beauty.
@MarkSoFla (con't) how not doing things that aren't allowed enhances, or even makes-or-breaks, the beauty.
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK So now you're back to "because God said not to" rather than "beauty". Teens don't reach well to either of these.
@RabbiDMK So now you're back to "because God said not to" rather than "beauty". Teens don't reach well to either of these.
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla Some kids, anyway. So why do they text when they won't be mechallel Shabbos other ways?
@MarkSoFla Some kids, anyway. So why do they text when they won't be mechallel Shabbos other ways?
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK I'm not sure. I think they perceive texting to be "not so bad" because it is equivalent to speaking to them.
@RabbiDMK I'm not sure. I think they perceive texting to be "not so bad" because it is equivalent to speaking to them.
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK I would love to see you explain to a teen the difference b/w speaking and texting. There is no difference,ex 4 the device.
@RabbiDMK I would love to see you explain to a teen the difference b/w speaking and texting. There is no difference,ex 4 the device.
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK But I think there is great risk that texting could lead to watching videos/TV,playing games,and could lead to going to movies,etc.
@RabbiDMK But I think there is great risk that texting could lead to watching videos/TV,playing games,and could lead to going to movies,etc.
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla I don't understand. Why is going to movies on Shabbos OTD but not texting on Shabbos?
@MarkSoFla I don't understand. Why is going to movies on Shabbos OTD but not texting on Shabbos?
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK Because everyone on the derech makes mistakes and transgresses periodically. OTD is a conscious choice of "leaving" community.
@RabbiDMK Because everyone on the derech makes mistakes and transgresses periodically. OTD is a conscious choice of "leaving" community.
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla But both texting and going to movies fit into that category. Why differentiate?
@MarkSoFla But both texting and going to movies fit into that category. Why differentiate?
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK It's the aspect of "leaving".The kids think it's "okay" to text as long as they stay in community,go to shul,etc.
@RabbiDMK It's the aspect of "leaving".The kids think it's "okay" to text as long as they stay in community,go to shul,etc.
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK And that's why they apparently do it publicly. It's just not a big deal to them. But they would NEVER get into a car to the movies
@RabbiDMK And that's why they apparently do it publicly. It's just not a big deal to them. But they would NEVER get into a car to the movies
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla This is part of what I don't get. Weren't they taught the mechanics of hilchos Shabbos in school?
@MarkSoFla This is part of what I don't get. Weren't they taught the mechanics of hilchos Shabbos in school?
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla Really? The girls too? (If so, it may be as simple as teaching them that texting is assur when we teach them that driving is.)
@MarkSoFla Really? The girls too? (If so, it may be as simple as teaching them that texting is assur when we teach them that driving is.)
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK The girls are taught that they need to learn less than the boys. Leads in many cases to lesser Judaism for them.(changes later)
@RabbiDMK The girls are taught that they need to learn less than the boys. Leads in many cases to lesser Judaism for them.(changes later)
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla Stop. They are taught something. Isn't halacha part of that "something?"
@MarkSoFla Stop. They are taught something. Isn't halacha part of that "something?"
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK I don't know the exact girls curriculum,but I've been told by more than a few people that it is "very weak".
@RabbiDMK I don't know the exact girls curriculum,but I've been told by more than a few people that it is "very weak".
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla My brother teaches halacha in a girls HS; it's pretty comprehensive. (con't)
@MarkSoFla My brother teaches halacha in a girls HS; it's pretty comprehensive. (con't)
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla (con't) My neighbor (R' Meyer Birnbaum) teaches halacha in the local girls HS, also very comprehensive.
@MarkSoFla (con't) My neighbor (R' Meyer Birnbaum) teaches halacha in the local girls HS, also very comprehensive.
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK I see that they spend a lot of time telling stories (some of which I consider 2b bubbe meisas) to the girls. Plus "rap sessions".
@RabbiDMK I see that they spend a lot of time telling stories (some of which I consider 2b bubbe meisas) to the girls. Plus "rap sessions".
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla Yeshiva HS graduates should have some sense of what it means to keep Shabbos, including the severity of using smartphones/texting
@MarkSoFla Yeshiva HS graduates should have some sense of what it means to keep Shabbos, including the severity of using smartphones/texting
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK I just never got into texting,but I might someday.My wife refused my offer to get her a smartphone recently.
@RabbiDMK I just never got into texting,but I might someday.My wife refused my offer to get her a smartphone recently.
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK For me? 1.HKB"H commanded us,2.Family time,3.Keeps my sanity(who could be "ON" 24/7 and remain sane?),4.Reading time.,etc
@RabbiDMK For me? 1.HKB"H commanded us,2.Family time,3.Keeps my sanity(who could be "ON" 24/7 and remain sane?),4.Reading time.,etc
MarkSoFla
Mark
@RabbiDMK Kiddush,dinner,a few zemirot,walk/visit family,family games,sleep,most of them come to shul with m… (cont) http://deck.ly/~ZQGT4
@RabbiDMK Kiddush,dinner,a few zemirot,walk/visit family,family games,sleep,most of them come to shul with m… (cont) http://deck.ly/~ZQGT4
RabbiDMK
Dov Kramer
@MarkSoFla Sounds nice. If they continue to enjoy being w/friends (& they have the right friends), BE"H texting shouldn't become a problem.
@MarkSoFla Sounds nice. If they continue to enjoy being w/friends (& they have the right friends), BE"H texting shouldn't become a problem.