openscience
Open Science Fedn
The Impact of Electronic and Open Notebooks buff.ly/WOoXeG by @thescienceofant and @brineydeep4 #scio13 #openscience
randal_olson
Randy Olson
@openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 Probably the biggest hurdle to get over is to get rid of the fear of being scooped. But how?
@openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 Probably the biggest hurdle to get over is to get rid of the fear of being scooped. But how?
openscience
Open Science Fedn
.@randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 think one step beyond the fear: provenance is established _more_ firmly with an open record
.@randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 think one step beyond the fear: provenance is established _more_ firmly with an open record
randal_olson
Randy Olson
@openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 Agreed, but would an open notebook/blog post be officially recognized in the case of a scoop?
@openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 Agreed, but would an open notebook/blog post be officially recognized in the case of a scoop?
randal_olson
Randy Olson
@openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 And what could you do? Once you're scooped, you're scooped.
@openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 And what could you do? Once you're scooped, you're scooped.
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@randal_olson @openscience @brineydeep4 you could always reveal the unethical behavior of the infringer, you do have proof
@randal_olson @openscience @brineydeep4 you could always reveal the unethical behavior of the infringer, you do have proof
RigelMD
rigel
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 this is a real (and justifiable) fear esp for small labs. #speakingfromexperience
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 this is a real (and justifiable) fear esp for small labs. #speakingfromexperience
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 my lab is/was small --> no fear! #enotes #scio13
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 my lab is/was small --> no fear! #enotes #scio13
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 I think that's great and admire that. Most won't take that perceived risk
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 I think that's great and admire that. Most won't take that perceived risk
RigelMD
rigel
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 provenance doesn't matter if someone else publishes before you
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 provenance doesn't matter if someone else publishes before you
openscience
Open Science Fedn
@RigelMD @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 provenance and reputation do matter. Put a DOI on it? ivory.idyll.org/blog/category/… @ctitusbrown
@RigelMD @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 provenance and reputation do matter. Put a DOI on it? ivory.idyll.org/blog/category/… @ctitusbrown
randal_olson
Randy Olson
@openscience @RigelMD @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown Good thought. Possible to get DOI for ever-changing open notebook / blog?
@openscience @RigelMD @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown Good thought. Possible to get DOI for ever-changing open notebook / blog?
RigelMD
rigel
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown funding/tenure are two biggest determinants of OA adoption.
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown funding/tenure are two biggest determinants of OA adoption.
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown new scientists have better chance to adopt new mentality #enotes #scio13
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown new scientists have better chance to adopt new mentality #enotes #scio13
RigelMD
rigel
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown if NIH takes it into consideration for grants, labs will open notebook
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown if NIH takes it into consideration for grants, labs will open notebook
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown now we're talking!
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown now we're talking!
RigelMD
rigel
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown maybe we need to be more strategic about this, make good examples.
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown maybe we need to be more strategic about this, make good examples.
randal_olson
Randy Olson
@RigelMD @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown Good example: nature.com/nature/journal…
@RigelMD @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown Good example: nature.com/nature/journal…
RigelMD
rigel
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown fund/promote a high-profile experiment with open nb's in a subfield
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown fund/promote a high-profile experiment with open nb's in a subfield
openscience
Open Science Fedn
@RigelMD @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown see nature.com/nchem/journal/… and @mattoddchem's @osddmalaria #enotes #scio13
@RigelMD @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown see nature.com/nchem/journal/… and @mattoddchem's @osddmalaria #enotes #scio13
MatToddChem
Matthew Todd
@openscience @RigelMD @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown Yes, and see @CaverKat 's new lab book http://115.146.85.229/
@openscience @RigelMD @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown Yes, and see @CaverKat 's new lab book http://115.146.85.229/
MatToddChem
Matthew Todd
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown Well, that's being done in drug discovery: @OSDDMalaria
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown Well, that's being done in drug discovery: @OSDDMalaria
RigelMD
rigel
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown be more proactive somehow
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 @ctitusbrown be more proactive somehow
RigelMD
rigel
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 you aren't going to get a new grant if all you have is notebooks
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 you aren't going to get a new grant if all you have is notebooks
RigelMD
rigel
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 it always comes down to the funding model
@openscience @randal_olson @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 it always comes down to the funding model
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 why/how would anyone scoop someone that is willingly sharing their research?
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 why/how would anyone scoop someone that is willingly sharing their research?
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 I can't answer that, but scooping is a real phenomenon
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 I can't answer that, but scooping is a real phenomenon
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 in our case, scooper was much bigger, experiment time clearly shorter for them
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 in our case, scooper was much bigger, experiment time clearly shorter for them
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 what motivated that, dunno, maybe knowing we were funded, so expt seen as important
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 what motivated that, dunno, maybe knowing we were funded, so expt seen as important
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 we were not sharing, but i brought up the idea & i understand the decision not to
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 we were not sharing, but i brought up the idea & i understand the decision not to
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 did u ever confront the scooper? Was there any conversation? How did u discover it?
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 did u ever confront the scooper? Was there any conversation? How did u discover it?
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 not to my knowledge, that was just sort of how-it-goes. (i was most jr lab member)
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 not to my knowledge, that was just sort of how-it-goes. (i was most jr lab member)
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 i think it def played into decision of funding agency not to renew grant 2yrs later
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 i think it def played into decision of funding agency not to renew grant 2yrs later
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 really?! That's crazy!
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 really?! That's crazy!
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 we didnt get as many pubs as we wanted out of it. lots of "wasted" effort
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 we didnt get as many pubs as we wanted out of it. lots of "wasted" effort
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD would it be a waste if u shared the story? What about the protocols? What about other random experiments that aren't publishable?
@RigelMD would it be a waste if u shared the story? What about the protocols? What about other random experiments that aren't publishable?
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant at the time, i dont think it would have made a difference. now, it might.
@Thescienceofant at the time, i dont think it would have made a difference. now, it might.
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant i think you wind up butting heads with publication bias too, as well as archival needs. journals serve that.
@Thescienceofant i think you wind up butting heads with publication bias too, as well as archival needs. journals serve that.
brineydeep4
Kristin Briney
@RigelMD @thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson But benefit of 'wasted' effort is still shared as opposed to the usual of being buried.
@RigelMD @thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson But benefit of 'wasted' effort is still shared as opposed to the usual of being buried.
RigelMD
rigel
@brineydeep4 @Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson youll get no argument from me on that. challenge is meaningfully indexing it.
@brineydeep4 @Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson youll get no argument from me on that. challenge is meaningfully indexing it.
brineydeep4
Kristin Briney
@RigelMD @thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson that's where a librarian can help! #enotes
@RigelMD @thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson that's where a librarian can help! #enotes
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 this is all hearsay too, really. i could be all wrong about this.
@Thescienceofant @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 this is all hearsay too, really. i could be all wrong about this.
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 if you had an #opennotebook you have a share mentality #Enotes #scio13
@RigelMD @openscience @randal_olson @brineydeep4 if you had an #opennotebook you have a share mentality #Enotes #scio13
RigelMD
rigel
@randal_olson @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 seeing people, esp small labs, get funding based on the open data they produce?
@randal_olson @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 seeing people, esp small labs, get funding based on the open data they produce?
randal_olson
Randy Olson
@RigelMD @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 Money is traditionally/empirically poor motivator.
@RigelMD @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 Money is traditionally/empirically poor motivator.
RigelMD
rigel
@randal_olson @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 not saying it's a motivator, but definitely a limiting reactant
@randal_olson @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 not saying it's a motivator, but definitely a limiting reactant
RigelMD
rigel
@randal_olson @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 but that seems odd to give grants only on data production. what about analysis?
@randal_olson @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 but that seems odd to give grants only on data production. what about analysis?
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD @randal_olson @openscience @brineydeep4 isn't that part of the scientific process?
@RigelMD @randal_olson @openscience @brineydeep4 isn't that part of the scientific process?
RigelMD
rigel
@Thescienceofant @randal_olson @openscience @brineydeep4 yes, but if lab B pubs analysis from lab A data before lab A, what then?
@Thescienceofant @randal_olson @openscience @brineydeep4 yes, but if lab B pubs analysis from lab A data before lab A, what then?
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD @randal_olson @openscience @brineydeep4 I would think that's better. Speed of science is increased.
@RigelMD @randal_olson @openscience @brineydeep4 I would think that's better. Speed of science is increased.
Thescienceofant
Anthony Salvagno
@RigelMD and there is always the chance the interpreted data in a different way than the first lab
@RigelMD and there is always the chance the interpreted data in a different way than the first lab
MatToddChem
Matthew Todd
@randal_olson @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 The fear of being scooped is over-stated. Not a bug, a feature...
@randal_olson @openscience @Thescienceofant @brineydeep4 The fear of being scooped is over-stated. Not a bug, a feature...
brianglanz
Brian Glanz
.@openscience see twitter.com/openscience/st… v. twitter.theinfo.org/29673129008916… another of many reasons to miss #AaronSw who can adopt theinfo.org?
.@openscience see twitter.com/openscience/st… v. twitter.theinfo.org/29673129008916… another of many reasons to miss #AaronSw who can adopt theinfo.org?